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	<title>Comments on: Nature Precedings Now Open</title>
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	<link>http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open</link>
	<description>A Wandering Through Life and Science</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bill Tozier</title>
		<link>http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-327</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Tozier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-327</guid>
		<description>Cheeky, are we? Here I thought we were being mean in public to famous people we worked with who took themselves too seriously.

Ah, right.

We thought about &lt;i&gt;Journal of Irreproducible Results&lt;/i&gt; for a bit, and decided it would be too specialized and abstruse for that general-purpose publication.

On a serious note: Given the number of readers of a really open archive, with all their diverse backgrounds and values, I wonder if a general digg-like karma-like system for rating contributions is better. Crowds have trouble defining their terms. They're not, in my experience, made to separate planning out a formal ontological framework with which to discuss something (like Santosh's 7-dimensional scheme), and &lt;i&gt;then&lt;/i&gt; sticking with it for every exemplar.

Given my experience with traditional credentialled peer-review (on both sides of the MSS), academicians aren't very good at it, either....

As a rule of thumb, I find when designing systems like this that allowing diversity to drive emergent classification helps quite a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheeky, are we? Here I thought we were being mean in public to famous people we worked with who took themselves too seriously.</p>
<p>Ah, right.</p>
<p>We thought about <i>Journal of Irreproducible Results</i> for a bit, and decided it would be too specialized and abstruse for that general-purpose publication.</p>
<p>On a serious note: Given the number of readers of a really open archive, with all their diverse backgrounds and values, I wonder if a general digg-like karma-like system for rating contributions is better. Crowds have trouble defining their terms. They&#8217;re not, in my experience, made to separate planning out a formal ontological framework with which to discuss something (like Santosh&#8217;s 7-dimensional scheme), and <i>then</i> sticking with it for every exemplar.</p>
<p>Given my experience with traditional credentialled peer-review (on both sides of the MSS), academicians aren&#8217;t very good at it, either&#8230;.</p>
<p>As a rule of thumb, I find when designing systems like this that allowing diversity to drive emergent classification helps quite a bit.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nature Precedings [A Blog Around The Clock] &#183; Articles</title>
		<link>http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>Nature Precedings [A Blog Around The Clock] &#183; Articles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-270</guid>
		<description>[...] Clarence Fisher, David Weinberger, AJC, Euan Edie, Tim O&#8217;Reilly, Dean Giustini, Peta Hopkins, Eric, mrees, Sally Wyman, Michael Jubb, Alex Palazzo, Marie, Corie Lok, Attila Csordas, Ben Vershbow, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Clarence Fisher, David Weinberger, AJC, Euan Edie, Tim O&#8217;Reilly, Dean Giustini, Peta Hopkins, Eric, mrees, Sally Wyman, Michael Jubb, Alex Palazzo, Marie, Corie Lok, Attila Csordas, Ben Vershbow, [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nature Precedings [A Blog Around The Clock] &#124; Cole Blog Network dot com</title>
		<link>http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-254</link>
		<dc:creator>Nature Precedings [A Blog Around The Clock] &#124; Cole Blog Network dot com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-254</guid>
		<description>[...] Clarence Fisher, David Weinberger, AJC, Euan Edie, Tim O&#8217;Reilly, Dean Giustini, Peta Hopkins, Eric, mrees, Sally Wyman, Michael Jubb, Alex Palazzo, Marie, Corie Lok, Attila Csordas, Ben Vershbow, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Clarence Fisher, David Weinberger, AJC, Euan Edie, Tim O&#8217;Reilly, Dean Giustini, Peta Hopkins, Eric, mrees, Sally Wyman, Michael Jubb, Alex Palazzo, Marie, Corie Lok, Attila Csordas, Ben Vershbow, [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nature Precedings [A Blog Around The Clock] &#183; New York Articles</title>
		<link>http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-250</link>
		<dc:creator>Nature Precedings [A Blog Around The Clock] &#183; New York Articles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-250</guid>
		<description>[...] Clarence Fisher, David Weinberger, AJC, Euan Edie, Tim O&#8217;Reilly, Dean Giustini, Peta Hopkins, Eric, mrees, Sally Wyman, Michael Jubb, Alex Palazzo, Marie, Corie Lok, Attila Csordas, Ben Vershbow, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Clarence Fisher, David Weinberger, AJC, Euan Edie, Tim O&#8217;Reilly, Dean Giustini, Peta Hopkins, Eric, mrees, Sally Wyman, Michael Jubb, Alex Palazzo, Marie, Corie Lok, Attila Csordas, Ben Vershbow, [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-235</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 08:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-235</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Perhaps, perhaps not. I think such a rating system might be overly complicated for a goal as conceptually simple as a pre-print system. After all, the main point is not that all the content will be high-quality, but that there is an easy-to-use central collection which can be cited, referred to, and discussed. Pre-publication is more, I think, a means to collaboration and data-sharing, and not an end itself. Promoting quality pre-publications, while an admirable pursuit in another context, is counter-productive here, since it raises the barrier of entry for casual data sharing and collaboration.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For the promotion of higher quality literature with a more open "rating" system, there is another initiative on the internet: PLoS ONE. There's also the Faculty of 1000.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just look at arXiv; it has hundreds of submissions a day, and it is doing quite well as a pre-print archive for physics, mathematics, and computer science, even without a rating system.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps, perhaps not. I think such a rating system might be overly complicated for a goal as conceptually simple as a pre-print system. After all, the main point is not that all the content will be high-quality, but that there is an easy-to-use central collection which can be cited, referred to, and discussed. Pre-publication is more, I think, a means to collaboration and data-sharing, and not an end itself. Promoting quality pre-publications, while an admirable pursuit in another context, is counter-productive here, since it raises the barrier of entry for casual data sharing and collaboration.</p>
<p>For the promotion of higher quality literature with a more open &#8220;rating&#8221; system, there is another initiative on the internet: PLoS ONE. There&#8217;s also the Faculty of 1000.</p>
<p>Just look at arXiv; it has hundreds of submissions a day, and it is doing quite well as a pre-print archive for physics, mathematics, and computer science, even without a rating system.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Santosh Patnaik</title>
		<link>http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>Santosh Patnaik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-231</guid>
		<description>Nature Precedings needs to have a good rating system for open, community-based review to work well. Currently, submitted articles can be voted for, but that does not tell one how many would have voted against it. Nor does one get to know the negative points unless they go through the whole article themselves. Such negative points may have been mentioned in some comments but they are not easy to spot. Further, one is usually disinclined to write textual comments unless one has a strong interest to do so.

With open preprint systems, being able to find useful and reliable ideas and data in articles is perhaps more important than being able to submit one. This becomes apparent as the number of articles increase, when searching can return hundreds and thousands of articles. One can’t go through all of them, and a few ‘bad’ articles can easily cause frustration and distrust in the quality of the submissions.

But if search criteria can include objective measures of article quality, then one can indeed easily find valuable material. Nature Precedings should therefore opt for a point-based rating system where different aspects of articles can be appraised.

Thus, instead of just letting one vote for an article, one should be allowed to rate its different aspects on, say, a 1-5 scale. Such aspects can include:

1. clarity
2. originality
3. novelty
4. presence and quality of experimental data
5. logical procession
6. depth
7. proper referencing

In effect, this would be a proper peer-review system.

The ratings, both their average and their spread, should be displayed alongside articles.

A good review/rating system will discourage submission of bad articles, build trust in the usability and reliability of content in Nature Precedings, and encourage quality submissions.

(similar comments posted elsewhere on the web by me)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nature Precedings needs to have a good rating system for open, community-based review to work well. Currently, submitted articles can be voted for, but that does not tell one how many would have voted against it. Nor does one get to know the negative points unless they go through the whole article themselves. Such negative points may have been mentioned in some comments but they are not easy to spot. Further, one is usually disinclined to write textual comments unless one has a strong interest to do so.</p>
<p>With open preprint systems, being able to find useful and reliable ideas and data in articles is perhaps more important than being able to submit one. This becomes apparent as the number of articles increase, when searching can return hundreds and thousands of articles. One can’t go through all of them, and a few ‘bad’ articles can easily cause frustration and distrust in the quality of the submissions.</p>
<p>But if search criteria can include objective measures of article quality, then one can indeed easily find valuable material. Nature Precedings should therefore opt for a point-based rating system where different aspects of articles can be appraised.</p>
<p>Thus, instead of just letting one vote for an article, one should be allowed to rate its different aspects on, say, a 1-5 scale. Such aspects can include:</p>
<p>1. clarity<br />
2. originality<br />
3. novelty<br />
4. presence and quality of experimental data<br />
5. logical procession<br />
6. depth<br />
7. proper referencing</p>
<p>In effect, this would be a proper peer-review system.</p>
<p>The ratings, both their average and their spread, should be displayed alongside articles.</p>
<p>A good review/rating system will discourage submission of bad articles, build trust in the usability and reliability of content in Nature Precedings, and encourage quality submissions.</p>
<p>(similar comments posted elsewhere on the web by me)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Apollo</title>
		<link>http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>Apollo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Neat idea!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neat idea!</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-225</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for letting me know about the omission. And yes, I quite enjoyed the article. That was how I first found your notebooks.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for letting me know about the omission. And yes, I quite enjoyed the article. That was how I first found your notebooks.</p>
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		<title>By: Cosma</title>
		<link>http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Cosma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:19:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futilecycle.com/2007/06/18/nature-precedings-now-open#comment-223</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the plug (I think), but  I had a &lt;a href="http://williamtozier.com/slurry/" rel="nofollow"&gt;co-author&lt;/a&gt;.  And we almost got it into Theoretical Population Biology, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the plug (I think), but  I had a <a href="http://williamtozier.com/slurry/" rel="nofollow">co-author</a>.  And we almost got it into Theoretical Population Biology, too.</p>
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